Kathryn Schulz on Gaslighting, Misinformation, and Coping with Grief

Confronting Reality

Kathryn Schulz and Ryan Holiday discuss the moral courage needed to face dark realities in society. Schulz highlights the ongoing struggles of millions living in poverty and without basic rights, emphasizing the importance of acknowledging these issues rather than ignoring them 1. She reflects on her personal connection to historical atrocities, such as her family's experience with genocide, and the challenge of teaching her daughter about these harsh truths 1. Holiday adds that understanding history, like the civil rights movement, helps us recognize the persistence of these dark energies in modern times 1.

It's terrifying is. Is what it is. Yeah, I mean, I think it's. It's very. It's very scary to confront what you're calling that dark energy, which, to be honest, I think is often truly hatred in a way that's so uncomfortable to confront.

--- Kathryn Schulz

They also explore the romanticized view of the Underground Railroad, noting that while it inspires, it can also lead to self-congratulatory narratives that overlook the true scale of historical injustices 2.

   

Power and Influence

The conversation shifts to the dynamics of power and influence in society. Ryan Holiday and Kathryn Schulz discuss how individuals and institutions wield their influence, sometimes for good, as seen with the Chan Zuckerberg Institute's pandemic research funding, and sometimes failing to address misinformation 3. Schulz emphasizes that many underestimate their own power, noting that those with fewer resources often contribute significantly to social change 3. She reflects on the rapid progress of gay rights, acknowledging both the victories and the ongoing threats to these rights, illustrating the fragile nature of social progress 4.

It's very hard to feel powerful in the face of these incredibly sweeping forces. On the other hand, and it's discouraging to feel powerful and then be reminded a million times a day that you aren't in all kinds of ways.

--- Kathryn Schulz

Holiday adds that societal forces often actively resist change, highlighting the need for continuous vigilance and action 4.