Jocko Willink: How to Become Resilient, Forge Your Identity & Lead Others | Huberman Lab Podcast 104

Published December 2022 on YouTube

Jocko Willink: How to Become Resilient, Forge Your Identity & Lead Others | Huberman Lab Podcast 104

1. Jocko Willink

Andrew and Jocko discuss a variety of tools for leadership, including generating physical and cognitive energy, navigating difficult relationships, and understanding self-identity. Jocko shares his experience as a Navy Seal and author of leadership books, while Andrew provides scientific insights on the effectiveness of these tools.+

2. Optimize Sleep & Hydration

Quality Protein & Sleep:Andrew emphasizes the importance of high-quality protein intake and introduces Maui NUI venison as a sponsor. He also discusses the significance of temperature regulation in sleep and recommends Eight Sleep's mattress covers for optimal sleep quality.+

Optimize Hydration:Andrew Huberman discusses the importance of hydration and proper electrolyte balance for optimal bodily function and how it affects sleep and wakefulness. He recommends Eight Sleep and Element to improve sleep quality and hydration levels.+

3. Self-Discovery and Impactful Actions

Podcasting and Navy Seals:Andrew and Jocko discuss their experiences with podcasting and Jocko's background as a Navy Seal, highlighting important contradictions that emerge when discussing work in the military and daily life.+

Discovering Self:Jocko and Andrew discuss the gradual process of discovering oneself and how it is not a single moment but a series of clues that lead to self-discovery. Jocko shares his childhood experience of slowly discovering that he was a person, and how it was a gradual process rather than a single event.+

Self-Realization:Jocko shares a childhood story that highlights the realization of having a sense of self and the impact we can have on the world. Andrew discusses the idea of generators and projectors, and how our relationship with the world shapes our identity.+

Impactful Actions:Jocko and Andrew discuss how the military provides a blank slate for individuals to perform tasks and gain recognition, leading to more control over their own destiny. They emphasize the importance of realizing that actions taken now can positively or negatively impact one's future, and how autonomy is the ultimate compensation for human beings.+

4. Military Mindsets

Military Mindsets:Jocko and Andrew discuss the types of mindsets that are attracted to the military, including those with an authoritarian mindset who want to instill order on themselves or others. They reference a book called The Psychology of Military Incompetence and explore the appeal of the military's orderly appearance from the outside.+

Military Mindset:Jocko discusses the different mindsets that thrive in the military, particularly in garrison and combat situations. He explains how those with an authoritarian mindset do well in orderly, predictable situations, while those with a more open and creative mindset excel in combat where chaos reigns.+

5. Military Divisions

Military Stereotypes:Jocko and Andrew discuss whether there is any truth to the stereotypes about different divisions in the military. While there are some general contours of personality, not every member of a division is the same. Jocko shares insights from a Seal officer about how the Seal teams can't quit.+

Decentralized Command:Jocko discusses the concept of decentralized command in the Navy and Seal teams, highlighting the strengths and weaknesses of not having doctrine in the latter. He emphasizes the importance of understanding what you're trying to accomplish and making it happen, even without explicit instructions.+

6. Daily Workouts & Discipline

Structure and Play:Jocko and Andrew discuss the balance between structure and play in life, and how discipline can lead to freedom. They touch on the importance of moments of connection and relaxation, and delve into Jocko's structured morning routine of training.+

Physical Activity:Jocko discusses his love for physical activity and how he enjoys a variety of workouts, from lifting weights to running and sprinting. He emphasizes that he's not necessarily good at any one aspect of fitness, but he enjoys all of it and could fill his day with physical activity if he had the time.+

Genetic Predispositions:Andrew and Jocko discuss the role of genetics in determining physical abilities such as grip strength, but emphasize that hard work and neuroplasticity can overcome genetic predispositions. They also touch on the importance of resilience in achieving success.+

7. AG1 (Athletic Greens)

Andrew shares his personal experience with Athletic Greens, a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that provides optimal and vital microbiotic health. He emphasizes the importance of gut health and how Athletic Greens meets all his foundational nutritional needs. Listeners can try Athletic Greens and receive five free travel packs and a year's supply of vitamin D, three K two by visiting Athleticgreens.com/huberman.+

8. Energy and Exercise

Energy and Exercise:Andrew and Jocko discuss the concept of energy and how exercise affects it. They talk about the importance of tracking progress and going through different phases of training. Jocko shares how he logs his workouts and how it helps him maintain his strength. They also discuss how exercise can give you energy and the barriers that prevent people from doing more with their bodies.+

Early Morning Exercise:Jocko and Andrew discuss the benefits of waking up early and getting physical activity in the morning. They explain how this aligns with circadian biology and the non-negotiable peak of cortisol that occurs once every 24 hours. They emphasize the importance of intense exercise in amplifying this peak.+

Energy and Exercise:Andrew and Jocko discuss the benefits of exercise and sunlight on energy levels throughout the day, as well as the importance of nourishment after training. Andrew explains how sunlight and exercise can increase cortisol levels, leading to higher energy levels, immune function, and focus. He also emphasizes the importance of nourishing the body after exercise to maintain energy levels.+

Meal Schedule:Jocko and Andrew discuss their eating habits and how it affects their physical activities. Jocko prefers fasting before physical activity, while Andrew emphasizes the importance of having a regular meal schedule that allows for good sleep and focus.+

Energy and Discipline:Jocko Willink shares his discipline and energy practices with Andrew Huberman. They discuss the importance of mental clarity and the relationship between caloric and neural energy.+

Neural Energy:Andrew and Jocko discuss the importance of neural energy and how it relates to nutrition and hydration. Andrew explains how consuming caloric energy takes away neural energy, and how training fasted gives him more energy. They also discuss the importance of hydration, and how different people have different needs.+

Energy and Movement:Andrew and Jocko discuss the importance of movement and hydration in increasing energy levels. They explain how repetitive movement can create energy and set the system at a higher RPM to do more deliberate stuff. They also discuss the benefits of cold water in inducing adrenaline release and increasing energy.+

9. Boosting Energy

Boosting Energy:Jocko and Andrew discuss their preferred methods of boosting energy, including high-intensity exercise and cold water immersion. They share personal experiences and insights on how to push through the initial discomfort to reap the benefits of these practices.+

Cold Therapy Benefits:Andrew and Jocko discuss the benefits of cold therapy before workouts. Cold therapy increases dopamine and adrenaline, which can improve athletic performance. A short duration of 30 seconds to a minute is sufficient to get the benefits.+

Benefits of Cold Exposure:Andrew discusses the benefits of cold exposure, including the self-discipline it builds and the long-lasting dopamine increase. He also touches on how it can be used to assist in addiction recovery. Despite concerns about its impact on hypertrophy, Andrew believes deliberate cold exposure is a valuable tool with many neural benefits.+

10. Energy and Action

Winning and Losing:Andrew discusses with a former military member about the impact of winning and losing on people's energy levels, particularly in the short and long term. They delve into how people can transmute losses into energy and how winning can lead to more wins through the release of dopamine and testosterone.+

Overcoming Loss:Jocko discusses how the selection process for Seal training weeds out those who can't recover quickly from losses. He explains that many high-level athletes quit because they don't know how to lose, but once in the teams, you get used to losing people and become more resilient.+

Leading a Mob:Jocko shares his insights on how to lead a team's morale and how to prevent a mob mentality from taking over. As a leader, you need to detach yourself from the mob and bring them back to center line when necessary. Taking action is often the best way to contend with adversity.+

Taking Action:Jocko emphasizes the importance of taking action in the face of adversity, whether it be in your personal or professional life. Andrew and Jocko discuss the importance of celebrating wins, but also moderating and reclaiming energy to avoid burnout.+

Energy and Motivation:Andrew discusses the importance of conserving energy and avoiding burnout by channeling motivation towards productive activities. He draws parallels between the dopamine system's role in seeking food and sex to other energy systems, such as qi in Eastern philosophy, and emphasizes the need to replenish the oil in one's candle through action.+

11. InsideTracker

Andrew discusses the importance of getting regular blood work done and introduces Inside Tracker, a personalized nutrition platform that uses data from your blood and DNA to help you better understand your body and reach your health goals. He explains how Inside Tracker makes it easy for you to adjust your nutrition and behavior to bring your metabolic factors, hormones, and lipids into optimal ranges for your health.+

12. Chemicals and Confidence

Confidence and Chemicals:Jocko and Andrew discuss the relationship between confidence and chemicals like dopamine and testosterone. They explore how winning and losing affects these chemicals and how it can impact a person's confidence. Jocko emphasizes the importance of finding a balance and not getting too wrapped up in confidence or lack thereof.+

Generators vs Projectors:Andrew discusses the concept of generators versus projectors in psychology and neuroscience, and how they relate to dopamine circuits. He explains how some people are more attuned to the dopamine system and are generators, while others are observers and projectors. This concept is important in all domains of life, including relationships and career paths.+

Modulating Celebratory Activities:Jocko and Andrew discuss the importance of modulating celebratory activities in parenting and leadership. They emphasize the need to provide balance and counterweight to people's emotions to prevent burnout and ensure sustained success.+

Finding Balance:Jocko and Andrew discuss the importance of finding balance in life and being a counterbalance for others. They also highlight the role of social media in serving as an archetype for friends who provide guidance and support, particularly for those who may not have close friends in their daily lives.+

13. Rest and Play

Rest and Play:Andrew and Jocko discuss the counterintuitive idea that deep rest, like sleep, and play can restore levels of motivation, drive, enthusiasm, and confidence. They highlight how sleep and play can help manage difficult situations and improve mental and physical well-being.+

Refilling the Tank:Jocko Willink shares how he refills his tank through Jiu Jitsu and surfing. He also talks about the importance of family time and how he enjoys having dinner with his daughter and talking about normal daily things.+

Drinking in the Navy:Jocko discusses his experience with drinking in the Navy and how it was part of the culture. Andrew shares his observations of Team Guys taking over bars and the excessive drinking culture in England. They also touch on the health effects of alcohol consumption.+

14. Sense of Self

Sense of Self:Andrew discusses the importance of having a strong sense of self and how it allows individuals to adapt to different contexts without losing their identity. He compares it to scuba diving and following a line, where one can let go but still remember where it is and return to it.+

Sense of Self:Andrew and Jocko discuss the importance of having a strong sense of self and how it relates to confidence. Jocko reflects on his experiences with alcohol and how he was able to maintain his sense of self in a culture that was very alcohol-centric.+

Alcohol and the Military:Jocko shares his experience with alcohol in the military and how it can negatively impact soldiers' abilities to operate effectively. He reflects on his past leadership and wishes he had done more to discourage drinking.+

Hardcore Attitude:Jocko talks about how hardcore music, with its rebellious attitude, influenced his mindset and helped him develop the courage to go against the norm. He shares how the lyrics of bands like Minor Threat resonated with him and gave him the confidence to stand up for what he believed in, even in the military.+

Seed Moments:Andrew and Jocko discuss how certain moments, particularly related to music, can leave a lasting impact on our lives. They delve into the neuroscience behind these "seed moments" and how they tap into our unique dopamine system.+

15. Motivation vs Discipline

Motivation and Discipline:Jocko Willink shares his perspective on motivation and discipline, emphasizing the importance of discipline over relying on motivation. He also reflects on the loss of his friend and colleague, Seth, and how it has impacted his approach to moving forward in life.+

The Synesthetic Guitarist:Jocko shares a story about his friend who was an emotional, artistic, and talented guitarist with synesthesia, a condition that allowed him to associate colors with numbers and sound. This unique ability gave him an edge in memorizing numbers and playing the guitar.+

Love and Loss:Jocko Willink shares a touching story about his friend Seth's funeral and how grief and love are intimately tied. Andrew Huberman listens and reflects on the depth of emotion that comes with losing someone we care about.+

16. Suicide and Resilience

Suicide and Emotional Depth:Andrew and his guest discuss the perplexing issue of suicide, particularly among highly trained individuals like those in the Seal Team community. They delve into the emotional depth of these individuals and how it relates to suicide, as well as the lack of understanding of the brain and body's role in this tragic phenomenon.+

Suicide and Mental Health:Andrew and Jocko discuss the complexity of suicide and mental health. They explore the question of why some people thrive while others struggle with depression and suicidal thoughts. They touch on the impact of brain trauma and the need for more research in this area.+

Changing Personalities:Jocko Willink and his guests discuss how people can change over time due to brain chemistry and depression, citing examples of friends and acquaintances who were different people than they used to be.+

Overcoming Adversity:Jocko shares stories from his time as a Navy SEAL, highlighting the importance of resilience and mental toughness in the face of adversity. He discusses the toll that exposure to high-stress situations can take on individuals, but also emphasizes the ability of SEALs to bounce back and continue on with their missions.+

Suicide Contagion:Jocko and Andrew discuss the social contagion of suicide within the veteran community and the high suicide rates in certain schools. They explore the loss of perception about time and identity as potential factors contributing to suicide.+

17. Suicide, Alcohol, Positive Action

Sleep and Suicide:Andrew Huberman discusses the link between disrupted sleep patterns and suicide, particularly in individuals with bipolar disorder. The conversation also touches on the importance of addressing alcohol use as a form of self-medication and the benefits of mental health organizations like Veteran Solutions.+

Alcohol and Positive Action:Andrew and Jocko discuss the negative effects of alcohol and the importance of positive action. They emphasize the need to face problems head-on and take an indirect approach to solving them, rather than turning to alcohol as a temporary escape.+

18. Meditation, Detachment

Meditation Methods:Andrew discusses two types of meditation: focused attention and open observer meditation. Focused attention enhances one's ability to focus, while open observer meditation restores our ability to engage in focus and is useful for creative problem solving. The discussion also touches on mental health and the importance of not overthinking.+

Surfing and Monkey Mind:Jocko discusses his experience with surfing and how it allows him to detach from his thoughts and be in the present moment, while also generating new ideas. He also shares his perspective on mindfulness and how it relates to his military training.+

19. Relationship Insights

Understanding Relationships:Andrew interviews psychiatrist Paul Conti, who shares his knowledge on trauma and relationships. He discusses how people bring negative or positive features from one relationship to another and how it's important to understand our own issues in relationships.+

Thriving in Novel Environments:Jocko and Andrew discuss why some people thrive outside of the military while others struggle. Jocko emphasizes the importance of adaptability and shares that being a SEAL does not automatically equal success.+

Success and Deception:Andrew and Jocko discuss the spectrum of success and how it can be achieved through deception, whether it be in the military, science, or other domains. They touch on the dangers of social engineering in science and the negative impact it has on society.+

Success and Box Checking:Jocko and Andrew discuss the potential pitfalls of following a predetermined path to success, whether it be through Ivy League schools or the Seal teams. They explore how some individuals struggle to adapt when there are no longer boxes to check, while others find success by pursuing personal goals and enjoying time with family.+

20. Love and Ambition

Ambition vs Love:Andrew discusses the difference between being ambitious and loving what you do. He shares how some people are just ambitious and love to win, while others have a deep love for their craft. He emphasizes the importance of finding work that includes both love and challenge, and the power of loving what you do.+

Tapping into Love:Andrew discusses how tapping into the feeling of love can allow us to be more adaptable and creative. He shares his experience with love and kindness meditation and how it can put us in touch with the source of dopamine and other neurotransmitters that give us a superpower to adapt to anything. He also explores the idea that liking the people you work with can lead to better performance, even if they are not as hard-driving as others.+

Winning Teams:Jocko and Andrew discuss the importance of team dynamics and how leadership can identify individuals who can execute tasks and make things happen. They emphasize that a team that loves each other will always outperform a team that hates each other.+

Finding the Right Role:Jocko and Andrew discuss the importance of finding the right role for individuals based on their nature and strengths. They emphasize that leaders should help their team members find the job they love and excel at, rather than trying to change their nature. Job satisfaction is critical for success, but it doesn't always guarantee proficiency.+

21. Building Teams, Detachment, Family

Building Strong Teams:Andrew and Jocko discuss the importance of building strong teams, drawing examples from the skateboarding community and their own podcast team. They emphasize the need to find one's place in a team and to work together towards a common goal.+

Superpower of Detachment:Jocko and the guest discuss the importance of being able to detach and assess one's skills and passions. They use examples of mentors and entrepreneurship to illustrate how taking a step back can lead to success. Jocko emphasizes that detachment is the true superpower of life.+

Overcoming Dark Times:Jocko and Andrew discuss the challenges of being stuck in a negative mindset and how detachment can help individuals see the bigger picture. They emphasize the importance of taking action and seeking perspective to overcome difficult times.+

Ecosystems of Life:Jocko Willink and Andrew Huberman discuss how our perspective on problems can be limited by the ecosystem we are in. By stepping outside of our current ecosystem, we can gain a new perspective and find solutions to our problems.+

22. Detachment: Problems & Perspective

Learning Detachment:Andrew discusses his tendency to try and solve every problem and how he could benefit from learning the art of detachment. He reflects on past relationships and the time he wasted trying to solve unsolvable problems.+

Problem Solving Detachment:Andrew and Jocko discuss the importance of being a problem solver and understanding what's important and what's not. They emphasize the need for detachment to assess and solve problems effectively.+

23. Detachment Tools

Detachment Tools:Jocko shares his experience with detachment during a training mission on an oil rig and how it helped him in a moment of waiting for leadership to make a call. He discusses the practical application of detachment and how small adjustments can make a big difference in building resilience.+

Tactical Field of View:Jocko shares his experience of having a wider field of view during a tactical mission and how it helped him make a basic tactical call that ultimately led to the success of the mission. He emphasizes the importance of having a wider perspective and making tactical calls when necessary.+

Broaden Your Field:Jocko shares how taking a step back and broadening your field of view can lead to better decision-making and detachment from emotions. By doing so, one can see infinitely more and make much better decisions.+

Detachment Mechanics:Jocko shares the mechanics of detachment, including taking a step back, broadening your field of view, and lifting your chin up. He emphasizes the importance of detaching from emotions and panic to make clear decisions.+

Detaching for Cognitive Clarity:Jocko and Andrew discuss the benefits of detachment and broadening our field of view for cognitive clarity. By listening more and talking less, we can detach from our own biases and see things from a new perspective, leading to new options and solutions.+

Scaling Perspectives:Andrew shares his experience of mountaineering with Wim Hof and how he learned to see similarities in things happening at different scales. He explains how having a broader field of view can provide new options and perspectives.+

24. Detachment and Problem Solving

Detachment and Problem Solving:Andrew and Jocko discuss the benefits of detachment in problem solving. They highlight how taking a step back and detaching from a situation can help individuals see solutions that were not visible before. Jocko also shares an example of how detachment helped a troop commander observe his team's performance during a training exercise.+

Tactical Superpower:Jocko shares his experience of how taking a step back and looking around can be a tactical superpower in any situation, whether it's in combat or in everyday life. He emphasizes the importance of detachment and strategic thinking to make better decisions.+

Emotional Detachment:Jocko explains the importance of emotional detachment in communication, especially in personal relationships. He emphasizes that it is a skill that can be learned and trained, and that everyone can get better at it. By taking a step back and understanding why someone is frustrated, one can avoid emotional arguments and find a solution.+

Avoiding the Tunnel:Andrew discusses the importance of detachment and avoiding the tunnel of social media. He shares insights on how everyone is susceptible to being pulled into the tunnel and how it can affect their lives and careers. Andrew also emphasizes the importance of broadening one's gaze and situational awareness.+

25. Social Media, Personal Flaws

Work Breaks:Andrew and Jocko discuss the importance of taking breaks during work and doing unrelated activities to free the mind. Andrew shares what bothers him about social media and how people exploit misunderstandings to create unnecessary divides.+

Liberating Truth:Jocko and Andrew discuss the importance of accepting criticism and being open to feedback on social media. Jocko shares how he learned to acknowledge the truth in criticism and respond with humility, rather than defensiveness. They also touch on the benefits of being concise on social media and the power of a positive mindset.+

26. Falling Asleep & Detachment

Sleep Struggles:Andrew and Jocko discuss their struggles with disengaging their minds at night and the love of drilling into problems. Andrew shares his fear of drugs that could hit his neural circuits just right and Jocko talks about the difficulty of stopping the awesome ride of new ideas at bedtime.+

Detaching for Perspective:Andrew and his guest discuss the importance of detachment and rest in achieving perspective. They share their personal experiences with different practices and how they've helped them in their careers and personal lives.+

27. Resilience and Inherited Traits

Resilience Calibration:Andrew and the guest discuss the fascination people have with the toughness of Navy Seals and how it relates to personal resilience. They question whether it's important to test one's own resilience and how to go about doing so.+

Deployment Realities:Jocko shares his experience of being on deployment in Ramadi and the constant risk that comes with it. He compares the training to the real thing and talks about the vehicle graveyard that represents the casualties.+

Strange Laboratory:Jocko Willink discusses the unpredictable nature of Basic Seal Training and how it serves as a strange laboratory for human beings. He explains that it's impossible to predict who will make it through the training and that it has more to do with how bad someone wants it rather than their background or pedigree.+

Inherited Traits:Andrew and Jocko discuss the role of nature and nurture in determining a person's abilities and the possibility of inherited acquired traits. They touch on the controversial issue of whether people are wired differently and the evidence that experience and acquired traits can change us, potentially transmitting across generations. Jocko also shares his opinion on the "legacy" kids in SEAL training and the pressure they feel to make it through.+

28. Building Mental Resilience

Andrew and Jocko discuss the importance of mental resilience and how to build it through deliberate discomfort and discipline. They emphasize the need to do things that require strength and toughness, even if they are not pleasurable, in order to improve oneself.+

29. People & Animals, Personalities

Animal Archetypes:Andrew and Jocko discuss the different personalities of dogs and wonder if people embody different animal archetypes. Jocko shares his experience with his German Shepherd, Odin, who has a unique personality and a strong sense of duty to protect and provide security.+

Dog Personalities:Jocko and Andrew discuss how a dog's personality can be influenced by nurture rather than nature, using the example of two brothers with vastly different temperaments. They also touch on the distinct personality of Belgian Malinois dogs, known for their use in security and military work. Jocko shares a thrilling story of witnessing a Malinois in action during a training exercise.+

Dog Training Insights:Andrew and Jocko discuss the intuitive nature of dogs and how they mimic their owners. Jocko shares his experience training his dog and the importance of being a pack leader. Andrew talks about the potential for dogs to sense human emotions and the similarities between training dogs and humans.+

30. Military, Politics, and Punk

Military Experience:Jocko discusses the importance of military experience in leadership positions, particularly in understanding how the military works and the costs of war. He believes that those who have served in the military have a better appreciation for the sacrifices made and would make good leaders. However, he notes that military experience is not mandatory for being a good leader.+

Political Balance:Jocko and Andrew discuss the current state of political balance in America and the negative effects of social media on political conversations. Jocko shares his thoughts on his level of involvement in politics and his focus on helping the economy through his businesses.+

American Citizenship:Jocko Willink and Andrew Huberman discuss the importance of focusing on growing businesses and taking care of workers and clients, rather than getting sucked into the political scene on social media. While it's important to pay attention to politics to ensure America stays on the right path, there's a threshold before total mayhem and chaos in the streets.+

Punk Rock Spirit:Andrew and Jocko discuss the punk rock spirit and the importance of being true to yourself. They also touch on the military experience and the significance of sharing stories and experiences.+

31. Actionable Knowledge

Andrew and Jocko discuss actionable knowledge for everyday life, including leadership principles and the benefits of supplements for mental and physical health. They also provide links to Jocko's books and Momentous Supplements, their podcast sponsors.+