[Unedited] Steven Waldman with Krista Tippett (On Liberating the Founders)

Founders' Views

The Founding Fathers held diverse and nuanced views on religion and government, challenging modern assumptions. Steven Waldman highlights that the founders did not see separation of church and state as a marker of one's faith. Instead, they believed vibrant faiths were those that promoted morality and good behavior 1. James Madison emerges as a key figure, advocating for religious liberty as a means to encourage religion by leaving it alone, a perspective often misunderstood today 2.

The founders who supported separation of church and state mostly did it because they wanted to promote religion, not discourage religion.

--- Steven Waldman

This complexity underscores the importance of understanding the founders' intentions beyond contemporary binaries.

   

Evangelical Role

Evangelicals played a crucial role in shaping the separation of church and state, often aligning with figures like Madison and Jefferson. Steven Waldman notes that evangelicals historically supported separation to protect their religious practices from persecution 3. This alliance was pivotal, as seen in Madison's political career, where evangelical support was essential for his congressional success 4.

The best way to have a vibrant Christianity is having more separation of church and state.

--- Steven Waldman

This historical context reveals the depth of evangelical influence on American religious liberty.

   

Evolving Views

Interpretations of the separation of church and state have evolved, reflecting ongoing debates about its implications. Steven Waldman argues that while the founders left some areas intentionally vague, figures like Madison believed in erring on the side of separation to protect religion from state interference 5. This perspective contrasts with Thomas Jefferson, who spoke of a "wall of separation," a concept that gained legal traction only in the 20th century 6.

Whenever there's a gray area, err on the side of separation.

--- Steven Waldman

These shifting interpretations highlight the dynamic nature of this foundational principle.